Open Energy Data
Uh, we'll probably kick off now.
Hello and welcome.
Uh, we've got a for Energy Action.
Webinar about open energy data.
Um, energy action is Australia's largest energy, um, broking and management business.
Uh, and so we've got a particular interest in open energy data.
I'm joined today by, um, by Jamie Leach.
If I can work out how to move my screen's up Down by by Jamie Leach.
She's the chapter leader of Fdata and knows all things about open, open data, Uh, and also by Clint Irving.
Um, energy actions, talented chief technology officer.
We'll talk in this webinar broadly about Jamie's gonna do do a sort of an overview of of, uh, open data, its position in the Australian and international context.
I'll talk through some use cases, Uh, and some opportunity that I think is available to us, uh, open energy data and Clint's gonna talk through somebody.
That we're working on that in terms of solution is building up.
So I had over to you, Jamie, um, in the first instance.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for allowing me to join you today.
So when we talk about open energy.
In a way, we are talking about the concept of open data, but in a more grown up way.
For instance, open data has been around in Australia since 2000 and nine in the US in the UK, and open data historically has pertained to the concept of public data since being government owned data faced with a collective.
So it could have been geospatial maps or transport bus timetables.
Anything of those lights that could be published, um, for apps products or services to be created based on that data.
So access to data streams.
Now, Over the last 56 years, we've really seen this concept evolved into once again if you can get the right data in the right hands, and it's meant getting access to private data now not necessarily public data and being able to control who can have access to it and for what purpose? Initially, this came about in the form of open banking that you may have heard of in the UK, so transaction records payments if you like being able to be shared with consumer consent, from banks through to fin tex to apps if you like.
Um, but in Australia in 2000 and 18 hour government explored the concept of open banking and decided to do something that is literally, globally leading best practice.
They created or intended to create what we now know as the consumer data, right, And I'm going to give you a quick intro of what it means for the open data economy.
And then Bruce and Clint are going to talk to you specifically about use cases and technology that's now taking access to this data and turning it into data driven decision ng.
So if we could just go to the next slide, please Bruce.
When the consumer data rate was conceived and the formal review went through in 2018, the government made the unique decision to not only launch open banking but to reserve the right to add on subsequent sectors.
And energy is the second sector that we're going to see go live in November this year, closely followed by other sectors.
But the reason that they launched was in their mind, having access to data and being able to consent for that data to be shared with technology would allow a few things to happen.
It would allow for consumers to be able to compare and switch between products and services next slide.
It would allow for increased competition between service providers.
It would also allow for increased innovation to enter this space.
Access to data is the number one, I guess, barrier for a lot of early stage tech companies being able to create products and compete going forth access to this data is no longer costly and no longer prohibitive, So the consumer data right would encourage competition between service providers.
It will also encourage innovation and innovative solutions if we keep moving Bruce.
It's envisaged, though, that when you increase competition, you level the playing field.
When you increase innovation, you start to get new cutting edge technologies and solutions.
Now, when we talk open energy, there has been a lot of discussion at the government level for a number of years now about how do we reduce household pressures as far as the cost and energy is one of those ones, that is quite often at the top of that list, although now I could say petrels very much taken it off the throne.
But better prices for customers is something that has been really at the forefront of driving open energies.
Inclusion in the Consumer Data Rights Brace next slide.
But it is true to say that consumer data it is far more than just open banking.
It has taken three, almost four years to get open banking where it is.
We now have all banks major minor mutual, regional, rural, all complying with exporting data.
And we are increasingly on a daily basis, having accredited data recipients spring up across just about every state in Australia, including internationals, and are now moving into this space.
But open energy.
What does that actually look like? Well, when we talk more innovative products and services, we have to look at the data sets that are going to be included in open energy with banking.
It was really a long list of transactional records, everything from your savings account to your credit card, um, to your leases, joint accounts, small businesses as well as individuals.
But it was also one of the product reference data that would allow uh, insights to be drawn and comparisons to be made from one brand to the next.
With energy energy being so nuanced in the type of data that it relies on both from an asset infrastructure perspective but also from consumer or small business accounts.
There are six data sets that open energy are going to touch upon and will require sharing.
They are national metering.
Identify standing data fields, customer provided data.
So this is about the customer.
This is about the account.
It could be named entity type contact details, for instance.
But then we have billing data.
So this is where the actual consumers behaviour.
So the small business, the account records of bills issued payments, arrangements, payments received if you like.
Then we get into General Tareq data as well as tailored tariff data, distributed energy resources data and lastly metering data.
So the data sets that have been included absolutely specific to energy and short of the customer data and the billing data would not necessarily easily translate across to any other sector.
But what are the sectors that are involved in Australia? Bruce.
So we obviously have open banking open energy.
The next cab off the rank is going to be open to the communications, then the five clusters after that make up open finance.
So this is everything from superannuation.
General insurance crypto non bank lenders buy now.
Pay later merchant card schemes.
There's a whole collective that will go into open finance.
And last but not least, if you could just hit that button one more time.
Brace, We have government data.
The end goal is not only will we have read access and write access to open data, they will start to include government data sets in specific use cases.
But that's at least we anticipate 3 to 4 years off.
So now that I've given you a little bit of an intro about what open energy is and how it fits into the wider scheme of what is this globally leading best practise scenario, Bruce, I might hand over to you to examine what we can do with energy data.
I hope my microphone is working.
Can you just say yes? It is terrific.
I'm struggling with two screens here.
Um, so just to dive into open energy data and the use cases, Jamie's just stolen some of my thunder around talking around the priority data sets.
But anybody that's been in the energy in this industry, we would know that we grapple with property data, Uh, and the the I guess the connection infrastructure.
Uh, data, um, And then we we look after or try to source and and re represent, uh, billing data and whatever format that might be in a tariff.
Data both network, uh, and and, uh, and building, um, And then, um and then the metering data.
Those are the big, big bonus for for most third party businesses.
Um, in terms of the open energy, um, roll out its, uh this energy action has been a second joint to this.
This activity that's been going on, um, my observation is that deregulation happened at the turn of the century.
It was very it was industry led, uh, industry led deregulation.
In other words, industry participants to find the rules, uh, that, uh, would affect and create custom, ultimately, customer competition.
And interestingly, when full retail contest ability was rolled out in Australia, it was led with large customers and electricity than smaller customers and electricity households and then large gas, uh, small gas customers open energy data is taking a perversely different approach to that and that it's not enforcing that All participants, um, participate in the market It's only the large the large retailers with a view that, uh that would be where most of the transactions would happen between those large retailers.
Uh, and then other retailers will join.
Um uh, sorry.
Other large retailers greater than 10,000 customers will join prior to November 22 free.
So a different approach than full retail contest ability and interesting.
I can't find an example of the economics that support that, but that's that's the regulatory framework that's been applied.
I'm optimistic with this regulatory framework because it is a triple C and Treasury based rather than being a mo and or A and AMC based.
In other words, we don't have the potentially.
We've got less, um, retailer based, uh or rather, industry based, um, influence on it.
And it should have a larger consumer perspective in terms of the way we're intending to use open energy data where a third party to provide energy broking services or help customers to buy their energy more, uh, well, more effectively.
I guess it's one way to say it.
Ultimately, we hope to achieve getting them something at lower cost.
Um, and we also help to manage our those customers.
What does that mean? We receipt invoices.
We convert them into data we received metadata.
We convert that into a normalised standard, and it then supports a series of use cases.
All your data in one place, the property, uh, scenario that I talked about at the start, so I can I can look at a property and see, um, all the all the information, all the energy information associated with that probably procurement to source the data to be able to then represent the energy data to other potential suppliers.
That's the creation of budgets.
Uh, spend files for accounts payable, um, and a cruel files as well as very traditional products like, um, uh, invoice, um, checking to make sure that the bills are adding up.
And then, lastly, perhaps a more current suite of services around energy management.
In other words, how much is a consumer, uh, missing in their scope? Two emissions, um, and how can they manage those better? So the problems associated with anybody trying to help a customer with that, and indeed, for a customer as well is that there is often, um, difficulty in getting that that data from from the data holder, which is typically for a an end use consumer, Um, a retailer that you're dealing with rather than the network distributor.
Um, so they will, um, because of internal policies.
Um, uh, there will be some challenges to getting full datasets or any data sets.
It's not always, but it's one of the challenges that third parties and customer well third parties deal with equally.
There's a non uniform response times to getting that data.
Some of them can be quite long.
Some of them are very effective, but they're certainly not in real time.
Uh, and then, lastly, there will be data gaps between, um when when a customer may move between retailers, they'll they'll.
They'll be a gap in the data between the final invoice or yeah, final invoice and and then the new retailer providing, um, in terms of cdr.
What we'd like to see happen is, um, alignment of customer eligibility with the banking sector.
I think it's just said at the outset the original FRC business case that was embedded in regulations saw large customers go first, whereas in CPR we see only small customers going first, Um, which has the impact ultimately reducing.
I would argue the commercial benefit for the Australian economy.
Um, so alignment of the rollout with, um, with with banking in terms of the customer base.
If if if data is available electronically, well, can't be shared.
Um, and then the extension of, um, of the framework to to all retailers rather than just, you know, retailers with a certain number of customers.
Uh, lastly, though the energy data, as I read it in the regulation, is only electricity focus, so they roll out to gas and other products is be equally useful.
I think that's the last of my slides clip.
Next thing was I was going to hand over to you.
Um, yeah, you can You can pop it on that slide.
Um, I think I'll take a slightly different tact.
Uh, because all my thunder has largely been stolen.
When you when you go third, you expect that from the two previous speakers.
But I'm gonna talk more about what could be out of this sort of a bit of a dreamer for technology and and opportunities like this.
Um, well, opportunities for us to give consumers more and to provide our customers with more opportunities.
Um, the current state is an interesting one.
Um, it's so to me, it feels so old.
We're still in the world where the interface between, uh what? The interface for the data as it's handed around is essentially just a paper or a pdf retailer Invoice.
Um, so So, you know, just to talk about our credentials in this space, what do we do? When we found that that was the only way to get data, We used artificial intelligence to read these paper and pdf invoices better than anyone has done before.
So of course you know we can We can pull the data off of those better than better than other competitors in the space and and, uh, and actually grab that data.
But it's still a little bit of guesswork, you know, it's still up to the up to how powerful that artificial intelligence is in in gaining control of this data, the meta data has a similar issue.
There are, at least in electricity, there is.
There's a defined format, But if you ask a retailer today for, uh, the electricity data they're not obliged to give you the data in that defined format.
They're going to give you the data in the format.
That's easiest for and and really, that's that should be okay for most systems.
But really, if if we want to accelerate opportunities in this space, we have to agree on formats.
Uh, and we have to agree on on opportunities and timelines for getting the data.
And that's that's where open data and the consumer debt data right enables us to do more.
Uh, so So I'll flip to the the next slide and and talk about, Hang on.
There we go.
Let's get a little too far ahead.
So when I first heard that we were doing, uh, with this, this consumer data rights opportunity was here.
Um, I was extremely excited because it falls in line with, uh, methodology methodology for building our new solution.
Um, I'll take a couple of seconds to talk about ice cream and give everyone a nice big scoop of it.
Um, in the in the nineties, the prevailing idea and the tech companies was that there would be two interfaces to get a data.
There'd be the internal interface and there'd be the second class citizen interface, the one that, you know, we just tacked on the end just so you could get a little bit of the data that you needed.
Um, and it created a sort of two tier model where the first class citizens, the internal users were really well looked after.
And the second class citizens, it sort of fell by the wayside.
Maybe the data was there may be the cause you're trying to make where we're going to be accommodated.
Um and so they used to call this human food and dog food.
Microsoft was one of the most prolific offenders in this space.
And in the in the early two thousands, they started change their tune.
And they said, We're going to build one interface for everybody and everybody gets together the data the same way.
And instead of calling a dog food and human food, they decided to say, Well, everybody gets ice cream.
So we built a solution around the idea that everybody gets ice cream.
And when CDR came along, it was just an extension of this for us because we could see that the industry was looking at what we're doing to say, You know what? We're going to open up the opportunities to get at that data the same way you are opening up the opportunity for your customers to get at the data that you're providing for them as well.
Um, and so this ice cream strategy came along for us and and open CDR.
Is going to extend that for us.
Um, and you can see that in our in our ongoing solution here, um, we've built right there in the middle of this.
This slide is, uh is our ingestion of this open data.
Um, and we're serving up that data to our customers the way we would expect to use it ourselves.
So everybody who uses our services will get a view of this data that we have ingested in a way that is preferable for the customers to to to use.
And, of course, we're going to use that data to provide our services to customers.
Um, I think if there's one thing that this has opened up to us, it's it's the It's the idea that when data is easy to obtain, we're going to spend less time finding data and more time using data.
So where could this lead energy action? Uh, now I think that we're going to see keener pricing or the potential for keener pricing on electricity contracts because we might be able to talk to Jen Taylor's in a way that says you can price on individual intervals because we have obtained the data so quickly that instead of pricing on on tariff structures and and and peak off peak and and shoulder, um, we should get a fine grain that much, much further because maybe they're they're more well hedged in certain intervals of the day.
Or they're seeing more electricity generation certain periods of the day.
Um, I think we're gonna see contracting overheads for electricity contracts reduced significantly, um, which means that customers should be able to move through their their preferred retailers quicker.
We might even find, um, energy action involved in the service, uh, that that a managed service where we can move customers through preferred retailers on their behalf, uh, without without them being without really, uh, causing any any disruption of the customer whatsoever.
Um, just because we're opening this up to two opportunity, uh, for ease of transfer.
Um, I think we'll also find that we will be able to price that sort of tier two analysis, uh, services to more customers will be able to open that up to a larger customer base.
Um, and give and give a larger customer base because, you know, our overheads will be reduced.
Um, we'll be able to show customers more opportunities for renewables storage, power factor, correction, that sort of thing that all comes from this this easier access to data.
Um, so I always like to finish my presentations with a little something here.
This is this is my my thoughts exactly on the industry we are in today.
And I think the next slide is just, uh, welcome to energy action.
Come shopping with us.
So Jamie might throw it over to you now that we're through the slides.
Just to ask, in your experience, if you reflected on the banking experience, what do you think? That and it's absolutely speculation I get it.
But what do you think the timelines might be for? For energy in terms of extending it? Extending the data sets to be a to be a more complete set.
look a couple of points.
I want to make a brief starting off with that.
What's been clear is in banking, we actually had to deploy phases.
So there were.
There were two different sets of phases phases of participants, depending on the size of the organisations.
We have major banks than we had the the non majors but also faces in far as products and data.
Because banking is obviously, um many, many, many more products.
If you like, then say electricity.
Um, they carved it up to try to make it, um, navigable.
I don't even know if that's a word.
It is now for the banks to comply.
So essentially they're saying instead of you having to get 100 and 14 legacy systems together, standardised the data format, build the A P s and pump it out by a due date, they said, right, we'll carve up the data, sets into three different phases and give you a graduating timeline.
What they've done with data with energy, though, is interesting or electricity.
They're saying that it's a much simpler concept now.
If you're a banker, energy might seem much simpler, but if you're in the energy market.
You realise just the gravity and the potential use of access to that data in a timely fashion.
They've also taken a bit of criticism for making all banks or authorised deposit institutions complied.
From Day one in banking, Um, there's been huge amounts of investment.
There's been a number of exemptions given for banks that just literally cannot meet that required exporting of data.
They almost seem a little bit gun shy.
This is just my personal opinion.
So they've chosen three of the biggest brands to open up open energy, if you like in AGL Energy, Australia and Origin.
They have then gone on the record and said they're hoping that once the data starts to flow and the benefits start to be experienced by the market, that they're hoping other brands will choose to join come to the party, so to speak.
I'm in two minds.
We see there is a certain investment, but we will also see market demand for access to their data and the end products, such as the ones that energy action and providing may start to see that evolution and mindset of brand saying we really do want to join the party.
What we also see is whilst the initial data sets have been mandated, standards have been drawn up.
The rules exist around them.
They've been categorised into, I guess, transaction data and then market or network data, um, and their treatments slightly different in the way that that data will actually be retrieved.
I do know that they are looking looking to broaden those datasets, particularly as use cases are conceived and come to market.
So in my mind, this is just stage one, and we would hope to see that broaden and get deeper.
And at the end of the day, use cases start to populate and experience enhanced experience for the customer has to be the optimal outcome.
The other thing.
I'd just add, Bruce.
Sorry, if I can just did for me.
I like to see how this is going to be used.
We all want to think this is This is an investment in time and effort and resources, and we all want to see something positive come out of it.
There's a use case that I've come across in the UK if you'll allow me just to share it.
Bruce and Clint really quickly.
Um uh, tech company has created an app for consumers where you sign up, it will monitor your energy behaviour against similar products that are out there in the market in close to real time.
And it will actually come back and recommend I know we talk about comparison and switching.
It's not the most innovative potential uses for data, but it is.
It's a very real one in consumers minds.
It will come up and actually give recommendations for you to switch between products to save money, and if you agree it will then take the action of switching those accounts for you.
It will do it across utilities, not just energy, but other suppliers as well.
Now, at the moment, we only have access to data in Australia.
What will come next is that ability for organisations such as energy action to actually carry out more wishes on your behalf.
So if you can identify a better solution or something to do with the accounts, you will then have permission to do that on behalf of the consumer or the business as well.
That's coming over the next couple of years as well.
Awesome, awesome But what I was going to talk about was the my experience of the energy industry was back at the turn of the century.
Would you believe running a workshop for, uh, for an electricity distributor when I was with a consultant firm And in a week, I had to learn what schemers were, uh and then give a presentation on those schemers and what they meant in terms of customer transactions.
Um, in doing that, I got very familiar with with reading schemers and uh and then understanding the process flows associated with it.
Um, and I was delighted to read in the open unity data.
I'm not quite sure for them, but the a p I instructions, so to speak, the references to customers with embedded in them.
So it's a completely different approach to the current regulation sets that we deal with in that customers like me at a house with no lights and voice are not described in the rules.
So it's a very different approach, and and that's where I'm anticipating the the difference.
Regulation will drive, um, uh, access to data, the real time delivery of services and then, um, the ability to give a higher quality services customers.
And to be frank.
That's why I'm waiting for other retailers to join and for other products to be added to the um, that'll be really interesting.
I don't have anything else, particularly to add to the presentations and things Clint Did you have anything else to add? Or Jamie The only the only other thing I'll add, Bruce, Um, and I absolutely take your remarks to hand.
There is a very different approach between regulation, um, and the way that regulation is created for the market.
But the consumer data right, which is really being created with the customer first and foremost and then working with industry to make that actually possible.
Um, the only other thing I'll say is this concept of insights.
So Clint spoke quite heavily about what you could do once you have the data.
Um, we talk about insights and analytics as if it's some sort of magic.
Data is a raw material insight, and analytics is just what you do when you're crunching that raw material.
And to me, that's where the value comes from.
Yes, there can be services around standardisation of the way that the bills are issued, and all of that is very important.
But it's an ability to access the data and do something with it.
That's the most exciting.
And that is very much a late addition.
If you like to the consumer data, right? The rules were set around standards, technical standards, data standards.
But the market is really, I think, educated the Treasury and the DSB, Um, and the to some extent about we need to be able to do something with that data.
Once we've got hold of noodles and needles of transaction records, for instance, what can we do with it? And that is still a very changing landscape, and it is very early on.
So brands such as energy action that are going to do really innovative things with the data make it easier for customers to draw conclusions, educate them, start to highlight, I guess, opportunities around their use.
To me, that is the true essence of why the consumer data rights will succeed in this country.
It's really good to Clint.
I want to go first.
Just the the other part of it is though the the ability to connect with trusted third party.
So the ability for a customer to use.
Um, ultimately, energy actions aiming to be an accredited data recipients, uh, so credit.
So for a customer to instruct an accredited a data recipient, uh, to then share their their data with other third parties.
I know that we're going to do a lot of work, and we are doing a lot of work around their zero, but I can imagine that, uh, our ability to then, um, provide data to other application providers, service providers that have got specific use case expertise is going to be incredibly exciting.
That was That was just what was in my head around that.
Just hand over you.
Yeah, that's fine.
Um, and you know, rather ironically, I'm glad you jumped in because there was a large, coal filled train that just went by just to, uh, just to add to the energy theme here.
Um, What I was gonna ask, though, is is for Jamie.
Um, we we consider ourselves champions of of new technology at energy action.
Specifically, we're trying to champion, um, CDR.
And an open energy data, Um, and and the possibilities we we have with I know that there's probably going to be some reluctant participants who are going to be forced to provide this data, possibly not.
Not necessarily in their in their best interest.
You know, they might might be excited about the loyalty tax of two.
Hard means you'll stay with us as a retail or something like that.
But can you think of anyone else in our space whose doing exciting things with this data? Or is it? You know, Are we Are we alone in this field? Look, I think you were definitely one of the early adopters.
Um, I was interviewed by the fin review not that long ago about progress in open energy.
Um, and from what I could see, um, the smaller end of town and I'm not meaning to make energy action seems small, but compared to the big listed brand, you guys were definitely leaning in.
There was a reluctance.
There was still a a fragmented approach.
Um, for some of the big big companies, um, I was only having conversations with how do I put this delicately without identifying them? Let's just say, a state owned entity not that long ago about their vision for trying to sell open data.
At which point, you know, we're talking 12, 18 months ago, there may have been ability to sell data, but very much with the regulation and the legislation coming in, I have to caution them to immediately cease and desist up skill themselves on what was happening with the consumer data rights.
Found out if they find out if their strategic plans were in any way going to, um, be impacted by this, um and really encourage them to lean further in on the sharing of what I call regulated data because it is not only good for the market, but it's really good for the the end customer.
Um, so we're only talking this week.
There is obviously still very mixed messaging out there, and I am seeing through my capacity in F data and Open Data Australia.
I'm seeing more tech companies leaning in because getting access to this data standardised data.
As you said Clint is it's a dream.
It's been one of the biggest hurdles to creating tech or doing anything with any scalability.
Um, and whilst this is individual data sets consented by the consumer, we're not talking, you know, 100,000 datasets coming through across the whole town.
It's a very different proposition, but this is going to be quality data where previously that might have been a bit hit and miss, this is definitely going to be the lifeblood that will fuel that technology developments going forward.
I mean, well, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that energy action has, um, disrupted the industry there as well.
And? And what an opportunity we see in this.
Now, Clint, I might ask you this question.
Um, one of our participants, Darren, has just asked a question.
I'll ask you because it's a question to energy action.
So what insights Would energy action like to get designated under the C.D.R
Insights rule to enable those CDR insights to be shared with non accredited organisations? Currently, there are no energy insights designated, so data derived from CDR data can only be shared with the customer or other accredited data recipients.
Um, just what you think of your answer, I'll just quickly explain.
In banking, they went as far as to designate for insights that they perceived to have a lower risk of privacy breaches that could be shared with anybody.
So it might be verification of some detail of the holder or something like serviceability something along those lines.
So, Clint, have you identified any specific insights that you think might be beneficial to the energy sector? It's an interesting thought.
It's a really interesting thought.
I mean, we in in the general sector, we pull a lot of our insights off of a memo and what am, oh, chooses to publish, which is which is an interesting, um, position to be in, Uh, in that sense, Um, what you're talking about is really that translation from data to information.
Um, where where? We're in a interesting place to be able to do something like that.
At the moment, we we do publish a a fluctuating price for for energy based on what is our data.
And we've drawn these conclusions from our data to say, Look, if you if you're buying, if you're contracting for energy today, your contract at this price.
So we've we've done something like that in that space, Um, from the open energy data, it really, uh it will be interesting.
It will be interesting because, um, it will be interesting to see what we can.
What? We can see our potential customers valuing from that space.
Um, I think that we would do it as a customer led activity and and and focus on what can we give our customers today? Uh, and then from there, we expanded out and do well, how is this relevant to to the rest of the market and and clean? Let me jump in the, um perhaps Jamie, you can correct me.
But those insights, I assume, are derivative data where you're using a third party data set and applying it to the customer data to arrive at, uh at some further drive data in the energy.
Those primarily, for instance, my experiences.
Those are primarily, um, datasets associated with emissions factors.
For instance, uh, and you're multiplying, you know, uh, one number usage against the emissions factor to, uh, arrive at the carbon intensity of the product of the happened? Um, yeah, amount of carbon produced by somebody for that product.
So that's that's perhaps one way that it could go.
It was just sorry.
I was going to say it's slightly different in CDR.
So effectively insights it derived specifically from the customer's data and then being able to be shared with an unaccredited party.
Um, but what you're talking about is potentially drive data.
But if it was still to be shared back with the customer, it would still comply with the consumer data rights.
Insights are unique as far as one use case that was thought of just to explain might be a mortgage broker if you like filling out an application for a customer that doesn't actually want to receive all of the bank data, but just wants to verify that the customer makes at least $2000 a month in order for them to to continue with putting the application together.
So they're very cut down snippets or almost summaries of the CDR data without having to become accredited to be able to receive all the raw data.
Um, it's different derived data, you know, historically see Dr Data Insights analytics all being lumped together.
CDR has got slightly different interpretations of those common terms, but it's going to take time, I guess, to truly work out.
What are those areas that you might potentially want to share with the third party other than with the customer themselves because that's that's covered under open energy as it stands.
Jamie Jamie, I think I think my, my where I was going with my horrible ramble there with it being customer lead here would be it would be a question of what would the customer like to share with the With the Earth larger industry as well? Um, so So my perspective on that would be perhaps their Net zero credentials or their green credentials.
They might want to share their their net zero story, Um, in a more public forum.
Uh, certainly that's That's an insight that I think customers would be proud of.
Um, that leads to the whole desire for sustainability.
People want to see more green behaviours.
Um, I think that's a perfect example.
You know, the thumbs up thumbs down standard of Do we meet that goal? Um, that would definitely class, in my opinion, is the type of insight that you would want to be permitted under open energy.
So, um, to Darrin, I think that's just one really quick put you on the spot idea of where an insight derived from energy data could be beneficial to the customer.
The other part of it and couldn't just talk to it.
There was, is the connection to third party.
So he was talking about carbon and ultimately came up with the idea of thumbs up and thumbs down.
But our view is that we want to be able to provide with customer explicit consent, um, the their their data through to people that might be able to provide services like, um and those are physical services be those the easy one for most people to understand would be solar power and the data that can support a business case around so, uh, solar power and highly automated way.
But equally, it could come down to the types of metering that might be at a at a property or a supply point.
Um, the types of equipment that are used to manage frequency or or demanded the thing.
So we're anticipating that the data, ultimately as a because it's all API based building and the data should be immediately available based on a query.
Um, well, if it was, if it was, you know, all industry participants were told to do it, then we should be able to provide that type of data to third parties that can deliver real benefit to, um, customers are, you know, in terms of physical equipment and and change their usage pant again.
If you're an incumbent, you don't necessarily want the the customer using less energy because revenues are less so I can understand the internal business case to not supporting so not not embracing CEO, which is.
Perhaps I'll just wrap up with one thing, and I know we're almost at the time.
It was interesting.
Whilst the banks weren't necessarily willing participants in the exporting of data, a number of them have now gone back and registered as recipients as well.
And when I asked one of the Big Four what the motivation was behind it, they said, We we realised two years into the journey that not only were we providing data to consumers, but if we actually started to change our internal business processes around this standardisation of data, common processes appease.
If you like being forced to drag all of these legacy data systems into one common way, and we changed our internal business processes around it, such as the way that mortgages are currently assessed processed and action, they could experience significant benefits internally, and I am going to go out on a ledge and predict that whilst energy is incredibly reluctant to participate, it's only going to take one or two of those stories to get out for us.
And you may start to see more and more, um, exporters of data wanting to, as Treasury said, join the party because they're going to realise not only is it going to keep their customers happy, but they may actually experience these internal efficiency gains themselves.
It's going to be an optimist.
There's a real opportunity to provide, uh, an alternative gateway solution to what's called cats transfers, um, procedures.
So the M sets, transfers, procedures, a procedures.
So an alternative gateway solution that uses CDR would be a game changer.
That's like going from the the old payments processing that used to happen in the banking sector that took days to to real time.
Um, that would be a real step change in industry.
Absolutely Well, I think I think we're up to time, just want to thank everybody for their attention.
And Jamie, thank you for joining us and Clint, So at that point, I'll stop sharing and sign off.
Thanks very much for the opportunity, guys.
Nice to nice to talk to Jamie and take care.